Military Units

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Re: Military Units

Post  alocin on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:56 pm

Just one thing for now: the word "legionary" was probably a generic word in latin that means simply "soldier", since "legio" was just a word to indicate any group of soldiers. I think something like "italic manipular infantry" would be more accurate.

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Re: Military Units

Post  Taylor on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:55 pm

alocin wrote:Just one thing for now: the word "legionary" was probably a generic word in latin that means simply "soldier", since "legio" was just a word to indicate any group of soldiers. I think something like "italic manipular infantry" would be more accurate.

Thanks! I'll remove mention of 'legionary'. What does 'manipular' mean though?

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Re: Military Units

Post  Taylor on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:13 pm

Ok, was on vacation last 2 weeks, but here's an update for italic military units:

650 BC1. Italic early iron-age warband
1. Etruscan early hoplite
550 BC2. Italic iron-age swordsman
2. Etruscan hoplite
450 BC3. Italic improved swordsman
3. Etruscan light hoplite
375 BC4. Italic armored swordsman
4. Italic skirmisher
300 BC5. Italic early maniple
5. Italic levis
250 BC6. Italic improved maniple
6. Italic improved levis
200 BC7. Italic Scipian maniple
7. Italic veles
Roman infantry is exactly the same, except "Italic" is replaced by "Roman" Smile. Note how development accelerates near the end, to reflect the quick development in Italy near the end of the period. If someone can think of something to put in-between somewhere in the earlier levels though, that'd be greatly appreciated.

I've also been thinking about the tech modifiers from military tech a little. In vanilla EU3 the effectiveness of armies increases dramatically during the time period. Not only does one get new troop types, but also the modifiers themselves increase. On top of that, military tactics and morale ALSO increase. This results in the fact that early-game armies would be totally useless against late-game ones; actually, even being ~100 years behind or so renders your troops utterly incapable of inflicting any meaningful damage on the enemy. Regardless of how realistic that is between 1400 and 1800, in our time period, this situation is ahistorical. Sure, tech development made armies much more effective, but it's not like less advanced troops couldn't land any casualties or win battles. So, we have to change the modifiers and tactics. Here's what I think: the fire modifiers should start higher than the shock ones, to reflect that archers were relatively more important in the early period. Then, as shock infantry (hoplites, legionaries) become more important, the shock modifiers should increase. I'd say the fire modifiers should not improve much at all. In the end, shock should be about twice as effective as fire. Morale shouldn't increase much. Tactics should increase somewhat; can anybody think of important moments in the time period tactics-wise?

Tell me your thoughts!

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Re: Military Units

Post  Taylor on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:00 am

I made a preliminary land tech table:

idyeartacticssupplymoraleinf firecav fireart fireinf shockcav shockart shock
010.5000.10.10.050.050.030.02
1340.5000.150.20.10.090.050.03
2670.5000.20.30.20.120.070.04
31000.5000.250.40.250.150.10.05
41070.50.050.040.260.420.260.170.130.06
51130.50.10.090.260.430.320.190.160.06
61200.50.150.130.270.450.370.210.180.07
71260.50.20.170.280.460.430.230.210.08
81330.50.250.220.290.480.490.250.240.08
91391.0.30.260.290.50.550.270.270.09
101461.0.350.30.30.510.610.290.290.1
111531.0.40.350.310.530.660.310.320.1
121591.0.450.390.320.540.720.330.350.11
131661.0.50.430.320.560.780.350.380.12
141721.0.550.480.330.580.840.370.40.12
151791.0.60.520.340.590.90.380.430.13
161851.0.650.570.340.610.950.40.460.13
171921.0.70.610.350.621.010.420.490.14
181991.0.750.650.360.641.070.440.510.15
192051.0.80.70.370.661.130.460.540.15
202121.0.850.740.370.671.190.480.570.16
212181.0.90.780.380.691.240.50.60.17
222251.0.950.830.390.71.30.520.620.17
232311.1.0.870.390.721.360.540.650.18
242381.1.050.910.40.731.420.560.680.19
252451.1.10.960.410.751.480.580.710.19
262511.51.151.0.420.771.530.60.730.2
272581.51.21.040.420.781.590.620.760.21
282641.51.251.090.430.81.650.640.790.21
292711.51.31.130.440.811.710.660.820.22
302771.51.351.170.450.831.770.680.840.23
312841.51.41.220.450.851.820.70.870.23
322911.51.451.260.460.861.880.720.90.24
332971.51.51.30.470.881.940.740.930.25
343041.51.551.350.470.892.0.760.950.25
353101.51.61.390.480.912.060.780.980.26
363171.51.651.430.490.932.110.81.010.27
373231.51.71.480.50.942.170.821.040.27
383301.51.751.520.50.962.230.831.060.28
393371.51.81.570.510.972.290.851.090.28
403431.51.851.610.520.992.340.871.120.29
413501.51.91.650.531.012.40.891.150.3
423561.51.951.70.531.022.460.911.170.3
433631.52.1.740.541.042.520.931.20.31
443692.2.051.780.551.052.580.951.230.32
453762.2.11.830.551.072.630.971.260.32
463832.2.151.870.561.092.690.991.280.33
473892.2.21.910.571.12.751.011.310.34
483962.2.251.960.581.122.811.031.340.34
494022.2.32.0.581.132.871.051.370.35
504092.2.352.040.591.152.921.071.390.36
514152.2.42.090.61.172.981.091.420.36
524222.2.452.130.611.183.041.111.450.37
534282.2.52.170.611.23.11.131.480.38
544352.2.552.220.621.213.161.151.50.38
554422.2.62.260.631.233.211.171.530.39
564482.2.652.30.631.243.271.191.560.4
574552.2.72.350.641.263.331.211.590.4
584612.2.752.390.651.283.391.231.610.41
594682.2.82.430.661.293.451.251.640.42
604742.2.852.480.661.313.51.271.670.42
614812.52.92.520.671.323.561.281.70.43
624882.52.952.570.681.343.621.31.720.43
634942.53.2.610.681.363.681.321.750.44
645012.53.052.650.691.373.741.341.780.45
655072.53.12.70.71.393.791.361.810.45
665142.53.152.740.711.43.851.381.830.46
675202.53.22.780.711.423.911.41.860.47
685272.53.252.830.721.443.971.421.890.47
695342.53.32.870.731.454.031.441.920.48
705402.53.352.910.741.474.081.461.940.49
715472.53.42.960.741.484.141.481.970.49
725532.53.453.0.751.54.21.52.0.5

That was a pretty big table, wasn't it Very Happy. Basically, all values simply increase linearly between 100AUC and 553 AUC. The idea is that most nations start at tech 3.

I also did some more brainstorming for different land units:

Mesopotamian
650Assyrian archers
Assyrian spearmen
Phrygian peltasts
575Babylonian archers
Babylonian spearmen
500Mesopotamian archers
Mesopotamian spearmen
425Improved Mesopotamian archers
Improved Mesopotamian spearmen
350Reformed Mesopotamian archers
Armored Mesopotamian spearmen
275Advanced Mesopotamian archers
Advanced Mesopotamian spearmen
200??
?? Something Armenian?

Iranian
650Early Iranian spearmen
Early Iranian archers
575Improved Iranian spearmen
Improved Iranian archers
525Early Immortals
Early Sparabara archers
475Improved Immortals
Improved Sparabara archers
400Reformed Immortals
Reformed Sparabara archers
325Armored Imortals
Armored Sparabara archers
250Parthian spearmen
Parthian archers
200Improved Parthian spearmen
Improved Parthian archers

Indian
650Vedic archers
Vedic axemen
575Improved Vedic archers
Improved Vedic axemen
500Late Vedic archers
Late Vedic axemen
425Nanda archers
Nanda spearmen
375Improved Nanda archers
Improved Nanda spearmen
325Maurya archers
Maurya spearmen
250Improved Maurya archers
Improved Maurya spearmen
200Reformed Maurya archers
Armored Maurya spearmen

Carthaginian
650Phoenician archers
Phoenician spearmen
575Early Carthaginian archers
Early Carthaginian spearmen
500Carthaginian archers
Carthaginian spearmen
425Improved Carthaginian archers
Improved Carthaginian spearmen
350Reformed Carthaginian archers
Armored Carthaginian spearmen
275Advanced Carthaginian archers
Advanced Carthaginian spearmen
200Hannibalian archers
Hannibalian spearmen

Chinese
650Chinese bronze-age swordsmen
Chinese archers
575Chinese improved bronze-age swordsmen
Chinese improved archers
500Chinese bronze-age armored swordsmen
Chinese reformed archers
425Chinese iron-age swordsmen
Chinese iron-age archers
350Chinese improved iron-age swordsmen
Chinese chrossbowmen
275Chinese reformed iron-age swordsmen
Chinese improved crossbowmen
200Chinese advanced swordsmen
Chinese reformed crowsbowmen

I know, some of these tables are a bit lame, but I really don't have much of an idea and there doesn't seem to be much information available for some tech groups. Input is welcome!

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Re: Military Units

Post  Taylor on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:19 am

I was like "what the hell, let's just do the rest of the tech groups and be done with it". Here's the result.

Steppe Iranian
650Scythian warband
Basic Scythian archers
575Improved Scythian warband
Early Scythian archers
500Early Scythian spearmen
Improved Scythian archers
425Armored Scythian spearmen
Reformed Scythian archers
350Advanced Scythian spearmen
Advanced Scythian archers
275Indo-Scythian spearmen
Indo-Scythian archers
200Improved Indo-Scythian spearmen
Improved Indo-Scythian archers

East Asian
650Early Korean bronze-age archers
Jomon warband
575Korean bronze-age archers
Improved Jomon warband
500Improved Korean bronze-age archers
Jomon swordsmen
425Reformed Korean bronze-age archers
Late Jomon swordsmen
350Early Korean iron-age archers
Early Yayoi swordsmen
275Improved Korean iron-age archers
Improved Yayoi swordsmen
200Reformed Korean iron-age archers
Armored Yayoi swordsmen

Egyptian
650Saite spearmen
Saite archers
Kushite skirmishers
575Improved Saite spearmen
Improved Saite archers
525Late Saite spearmen
Late Saite archers
Improved Kushite skirmishers
47527th Dynasty spearmen
27th Dynasty archers
400Nepheritean spearmen
Nepheritean archers
Reformed Kushite skirmishers
350Improved Egyptian spearmen
Improved Egyptian archers
275Armored Egyptian spearmen
Reformed Egyptian archers
200Advanced Egyptian spearmen
Advanced Egyptian archers
Advanced Kushite skirmishers

And now for the real challenge: actually create all of these units pale

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Re: Military Units

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