Formable Nations

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  videonfan on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:39 am

Taylor wrote:
illapa wrote:I sent my file to Taylor on the EU3 forums. Apparently I cannot upload anything for 1 week since I just joined -_-

The "core" requirement should remain though, otherwise it becomes too easy.

Thoughts?

How is it possible to have core in a region you never owned?unless you make an event that releases that nation as vassal but gives core to the (greek) nation that captured it

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Wolololo on Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:39 am

Those decisions look nice, good work illapa. Smile
Maybe the epirus decision should give a core on Taras too?

Also a correction on my Pontus decision. To form it you need to control Sivas, Yazgod, Kastamon and Giresun. It should give cores on these provinces, aswell as Sinope and Trezibond. Perhaps a causus belli on Colchis and other nation around the Black Sea.
To enact it you need to be of either Greek or Persian culture (or a Greco-Persian if we put that in the mod).

unless you make an event that releases that nation as vassal but gives core to the (greek) nation that captured it

I was thinking something along those lines too.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:38 pm

Thanks =D glad you liked them. Er. I thought of giving it a core on Taranto but I think it would be better just to give Epirus a mission that either gives it a subjugation casus belli or just gets it in its sphere or influence or conquers it outright.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Wolololo on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:46 pm

You're right. One or more missions on Magna Graecia sounds fun. Missions are always fun. Razz

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Wolololo on Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:15 am

You may need to fix some of the brackets in greek_leagues.txt.
kingdom_of_epirus is bugged atleast.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:42 am

Yea I did not have much time to test it I'll do it today and hopefully re upload by today or tomorrow. *edit* I've found the issue. I'm going to re do the file. but I am going to break it into each having its own file instead of 1 big file so that decisions can be made for each of the leagues/countries.

Here is a new link for...well all the stuff I've done I went ahead and added decisions to make the leagues/countries more unique from each other instead of copies of each other in all but name. I did historical research on it. Here's basically what it is:
Achaean League has a bonus to leader shock and recruitment speed since they specialized in light infantry

Aetolian league has a bonus to prestige (oracle of Delphi) along with infamy and trade income, because since they were known to be poorer they tended to produce pirates,

Athenian league got bonuses similar to Venice, merchant chance and galley cost heavily reduced,

Epirus was known for its cult to Achilles and the Pyrrhic victory phrase so they have higher moral so that battles will last longer,

Magna Graecia has Taranto in it so they were given a bonus to cavalry (they are cheaper),

Sparta was given a bonus to discipline and morale and attrition but a penalty to manpower,

and Syracuse was known for (at least for a while) being one of the few successful tyrannies and for Archimedes so I gave them a bonus to building cost and to research, but a stability penalty. Let me know if these are ok, if any don't work ( I had time for some testing this time ) or if you just straight up think some of them are overpowered.
mediafire.com download.php?a2ypsw67wira4j5

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Wolololo on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:35 am

Those bonuses seem nice.
I was wondering how to deal with the Spartan military. I gave them high manpower so they would get a large starting army. But I agree with your bonuses. How can we combine the two, so they don't start with a small army?

Also, link says invalid or deleted file.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:05 am

Try now? I saw you post that comment just as i changed the link (found a problem in one of the tags) so you probably didn't get the new one.

Sparta historically had a smaller super professional army. I gave them big bonuses like I think it was 0.5 to moral and discipline but I gave them -0.25 to manpower because Sparta did not have a massive army it just had a really elite one. In fact at one point there were like 3 slaves (helots) to every 1 Spartan citizen.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:13 am

Making the starting army larger can be achieved by putting the starting naval-land slider more towards land at start.

Note that I also gave the govt form "Diarchy" Sparta-esque features, namely

Code:
land_morale = 0.50
army_tradition = 1.0
global_manpower_modifier = -0.10
global_tax_modifier = -0.05

We should make sure to not overdo it Wink

edit: btw will look at the files later tonight.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:17 am

oh I have an idea give them a bonus to their forcelimit instead of their manpower. My idea was to make it so they have a sort of large and powerful army but basically if they have 1 major defeat its over cuz its really hard for them to come back from it. ...maybe.... land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.1? or 0.2?

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:27 am

illapa wrote:oh I have an idea give them a bonus to their forcelimit instead of their manpower. My idea was to make it so they have a sort of large and powerful army but basically if they have 1 major defeat its over cuz its really hard for them to come back from it. ...maybe.... land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.1? or 0.2?

I think this should be true quite generally for every nation (so that it takes longer to rebuild after defeat) - but indeed especially so for Sparta. 0.2 would do nicely for land_forcelimit_modifier. But are we going to put this in for Sparta specifically or for their govt type (Diarchy)?

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:35 am

The government type. Since its the Slave worker class - Citizen fighter class mentality that the state produced that created the large army but slow to build up army.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:30 am

I looked at the files; it looks very good! The extra historical decision per league will give some nice extra historical feel.

Here are some notes though:
- There is a syntax error in each extra league decision; there's a "]" where it should be "}".
- I'm not so sure about Syracuse's tyrant decision. "Tyranny" is a form of government currently, so it doesn't really fit in well.
- The Peloponnesean decision is a bit overpowered. +50% discipline is too much IMO, since discipline is quite an awesome thing to have. How about 25%?
- Can you check the province IDs in the decisions and in the history/country files? Many of them are not compatible with the current version of the mod anymore.
- Shouldn't there be a localisation entry for the modifiers?

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:14 pm

Yea I am about 1/2 done with the description (localisation) files I just wanted to make sure people were ok with what I was doing before I made all the descriptions too.

-Sry about the syntax errors I knew something was wrong but I couldn't find it.

-Syracuse's decision...they were the only real stable tyranny so I figured their building bonus should go with that. the tech one...to be honest I was thinking or Archimedes when I put that =D also maybe a way to compensate for them being a dictatorship since dictatorships tend to be narrowminded. ( haven't looked at its sliders though). I am going to argue for this or something similar to be kept for them. Syracuse was one of the only tyrannies to actually remain in power and flourish for a long period of time. Corinth did fine with one for a while but then was racked by succession crisis and eventually became an oligarchy. Macedon isn't a tyranny they're their own thing. Sparta's kingship is different. Idk I just wanted Syracuse to be special as a tyranny seeing as they were by far the most successful one. They held off Africans, Greeks, and Italians over a huge period of time and managed to have a flourishing culture and city at the same time. Maybe replace the tech bonus with a bonus for recovering from war exhaustion since they survived and thrived so long despite of wars?

-Yea you're right lets make it 25%. I'll have to do some play testing cuz -25% manpower is very painful too.

-I will re check the province ID's I made them right before you did you're big overhaul so I'll re upload it probably tomorrow maybe tonight. Are there any more leagues that anyone wants? Maybe a decision for Macedon to create the "Corinthian league" that Philip II created, and by that I mean a decision that gives Macedon a stability bonus or lowering revolt risk if it conquers mainland Greece.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:21 pm

illapa wrote:-Syracuse's decision...they were the only real stable tyranny so I figured their building bonus should go with that. the tech one...to be honest I was thinking or Archimedes when I put that =D also maybe a way to compensate for them being a dictatorship since dictatorships tend to be narrowminded. ( haven't looked at its sliders though). I am going to argue for this or something similar to be kept for them. Syracuse was one of the only tyrannies to actually remain in power and flourish for a long period of time. Corinth did fine with one for a while but then was racked by succession crisis and eventually became an oligarchy. Macedon isn't a tyranny they're their own thing. Sparta's kingship is different. Idk I just wanted Syracuse to be special as a tyranny seeing as they were by far the most successful one. They held off Africans, Greeks, and Italians over a huge period of time and managed to have a flourishing culture and city at the same time. Maybe replace the tech bonus with a bonus for recovering from war exhaustion since they survived and thrived so long despite of wars?

Ok that's a good point. I made Tyranny a quite bad govt form, and am planning to make an event that can turn a direct democracy or a plutocracy into a Tyranny, which would be quite annoying for the player; that way those govt forms have their downside. Maybe we can make your tyranny decision tie in with this somehow; e.g. have it compensate for the bad effects of the Tyranny govt form, and give some additional bonuses; furthermore it goes away if Syracuse ceases being a Tyranny - thus the player actually wants to stay a Tyranny.

I've uploaded a new version of the mod, but it doesn't do anything to province IDs. I did make a note about putting changes to localisation in a new csv; see the links & download thread. Thanks! Smile

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:48 am

yea sorry I've been really busy with a new internship I finally got but I'll have it redone by tonight I'm just researching military stuff at the moment.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:18 am

illapa wrote:yea sorry I've been really busy with a new internship I finally got but I'll have it redone by tonight I'm just researching military stuff at the moment.

gratz on the internship Smile

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:15 am

1. Thanks I'm really enjoying the internship =D. Just so I make sure. You only changed province tags right? I've gone back and fixed them all.

2. Does anyone else have any GREEK leagues that they want to form?

3. Here is a little pet project I had in mind. I was thinking maybe a "league of leagues" decision which I think would be epic. I would call it like "Declare Hegemony". The effects would be
a. government changes to Hegemony, the government would be super overpowered it would have lots of really good bonuses.

b. The down side would be...your territory is broken up into as many vassals as possible and would have many events so that you HAVE to keep it like that and have to have most of your nation as vassals at all times(through events of vassals demanding more land from you if you grow too big).

c. (this is a sort of rant/description) Don't worry about extra work I'm willing to make the events/decision myself, but I was thinking of the nation being a federation of every single little Greek state. Once enacting the decision most provinces break off and become your vassals. I think it'd be a neat role play decision where you get a very powerful government type, something like global tax, production, tariffs, and trade go up by 100%, military force limits go up 100% for naval and land, and you get a cot, but the negative side would be...you're entire nation is made of vassals so its hyper decentralized. Is this too fictional though? I think it would be great for someone who wants to role play in being the sort of guardian of freedom and self determination etc. amongst all the city states as Hegemon. Let me know what you think it's sorta my pet project I made a variation in a personal mod for myself a while ago it was fun to play as.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:42 am

illapa wrote:3. Here is a little pet project I had in mind. I was thinking maybe a "league of leagues" decision which I think would be epic. I would call it like "Declare Hegemony". The effects would be
a. government changes to Hegemony, the government would be super overpowered it would have lots of really good bonuses.

b. The down side would be...your territory is broken up into as many vassals as possible and would have many events so that you HAVE to keep it like that and have to have most of your nation as vassals at all times(through events of vassals demanding more land from you if you grow too big).

c. (this is a sort of rant/description) Don't worry about extra work I'm willing to make the events/decision myself, but I was thinking of the nation being a federation of every single little Greek state. Once enacting the decision most provinces break off and become your vassals. I think it'd be a neat role play decision where you get a very powerful government type, something like global tax, production, tariffs, and trade go up by 100%, military force limits go up 100% for naval and land, and you get a cot, but the negative side would be...you're entire nation is made of vassals so its hyper decentralized. Is this too fictional though? I think it would be great for someone who wants to role play in being the sort of guardian of freedom and self determination etc. amongst all the city states as Hegemon. Let me know what you think it's sorta my pet project I made a variation in a personal mod for myself a while ago it was fun to play as.

That sounds like a fun feature, but make sure that it's not too easy to attain. We don't want the AI forming Hegemonies all the time Razz

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:43 am

Oh I intend on making it nearly impossible. I want it to be like the country must own literally ever single greek province and colony in the whole world from Cyrene in North Africa to Emporion in Spain to the Bosporus Kingdoms in Crimea to the homelands of the Greeks. I want it to be something that's a real challenge.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:06 pm

Here is the new Greek leagues I made. I've updated the tags, nerfed the Spartan discipline bonus to 0.2. I did not nerf Syracuse because I don't think it is overpowered since tyrannies are (supposedly?) bad forms of government in this game. I'm working on my hegemon thing right now but I'm focusing most on the military units. hopefully I can post all the Greek ones at least some time before next weekend.

If everything is ok with it could you integrate it with the current mod? All you would have to do is copy/paste it into the 650 bc folder mediafire.com download.php?93i8e5ywn5xm259

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Wolololo on Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:59 am

I like the hegemon idea, but I think we should focus on things that are neccessary for the mod to function now, like technologies and the military.

So it should be low on the to-do list.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  illapa on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Yea to be honest I realized it would take...a lot of code to be blunt lol. I'd have to make it so once activated the decision would release every possible greek vassal. Also I'd have to make it so you would have to keep it that way. So yea I'm definitely focusing on other things atm.

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:44 pm

I haven't tested the leagues yet, since lately I've been really really busy in RL suddenly. Hopefully this week will be better. I can probably test them tonight and integrate them into the mod.

Btw I agree that military & techs should be higher priority than the hegemony thing (even though it's a cool idea).

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Re: Formable Nations

Post  Taylor on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:08 am

ok I looked at the leagues. There were still some minor mistakes but the Validator ironed out all of those Smile. Good work! Tonight I'll add some localisation and upload a new version of the mod.

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